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Author Topic: UPSKILLING  (Read 5451 times)

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Offline spud

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UPSKILLING
« on: October 21, 2010, 05:19:04 AM »
Finally plumbers in CHCH are going to be "upskilled" in how to use polybuteline pipe. We are going to learn how to correctly crimp a pipe and also how to check the crimp with the gauge!
This is fantastic stuff. After 15 years of plumbing Im finally going to be upskilled on this complicated and sophisticated form of piping and it will only cost me $180!
 O0


Linkback: http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/licensing-and-up-skilling/45/upskilling/523/

Offline Plumber

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 07:53:24 AM »
ROFL!!!  :D
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Offline Thunderhead

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 11:05:51 PM »
OMG what has this world come to upskilling courses for polybute technitions...maybees in the name of selling a few of there new rachet tools $180 for the course and $150 for the tool win win for them.

Offline Plumber

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2010, 06:47:06 AM »
I personally feel, if they want us to use their pipe and fittings they should be supplying the tools for free!

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2010, 09:52:56 AM »
I know what you mean plumber...the other month we had a bute breakfast introducing the new rachet tool...i talked to the guy and said im due to come out of my apprentiship how about some tools so i can use your system...needless to say he laughed at me and just said it aint going to happen...needless to say i retorted straight back "well i wont be using your system then!"...these guys are bonkers there are many systems out there so there is no lack of competition in the market place one would think that they would be lining up to give people tools to use there products but no they seem to think they owe us nothing for using there system...anyway we use dux cus of the brass fittings and copper rings, the plastic bute fittings scare me esp the hot water line...just the other day i replaced a tap and while fitting, the plastic bute crox fitting sheared off at the base of the crox and i didnt even get a chance to swing on it!...building code requires a life of 50years behind walls but bute only gurrantee product for 25years i think? So we tend to use rehau which comes with a 50year product gurantee...that stuff is bullet proof...nice solid dr brass fittings, thick brass sleeves, its the s**t! i reckon, but each to there own.  ;)

Offline Fordy

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 03:56:40 AM »
Quote
I personally feel, if they want us to use their pipe and fittings they should be supplying the tools for free!

Yup, agreed. The originally did this from Day One - I never ever paid for a set of crimpers or buteline pipe cutters. Hell I can remember every 12 months they would check our crimpers and even replace them (free) if they needed it. No longer - what is this country coming to  ;D


Offline TS

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 07:42:56 AM »
I know what you mean plumber...the other month we had a bute breakfast introducing the new rachet tool...i talked to the guy and said im due to come out of my apprentiship how about some tools so i can use your system...needless to say he laughed at me and just said it aint going to happen...needless to say i retorted straight back "well i wont be using your system then!"...these guys are bonkers there are many systems out there so there is no lack of competition in the market place one would think that they would be lining up to give people tools to use there products but no they seem to think they owe us nothing for using there system...anyway we use dux cus of the brass fittings and copper rings, the plastic bute fittings scare me esp the hot water line...just the other day i replaced a tap and while fitting, the plastic bute crox fitting sheared off at the base of the crox and i didnt even get a chance to swing on it!...building code requires a life of 50years behind walls but bute only gurrantee product for 25years i think? So we tend to use rehau which comes with a 50year product gurantee...that stuff is bullet proof...nice solid dr brass fittings, thick brass sleeves, its the s**t! i reckon, but each to there own.  ;)

Durability requirement for behind the wall pipes and fittings is only 15 years.

What cracks me up about the upcoming course is its worth 12 points!!! This upskilling is a joke.

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2010, 04:35:41 AM »
Not too sure about that one mike

Clause B2 states that :
(b) 15 years if:
(i) Those building elements
(including the building
envelope, exposed plumbing
in the subfloor space, and
in-built chimneys and flues)
are moderately difficult to
access or replace.

Notice the exposed plumbing in sub floor space no mention of enclosed behind wall plumbing.

B2.2 Building materials,
components and construction
methods shall be sufficiently
durable to ensure that the building,
without reconstruction or major
renovation, satisfies the other
functional requirements of this
code throughout the life of the building....and life of building we all know is 50years

reconstruction or major renovation is called ripping walls open to find and fix closed in pipes...when you cut someones gib open to repair pipes it aint no small job to repair it...the bill is 1 the plumber, 2 re-gib, stopping, painting(means the whole wall or room to match the repair) and or tiling or wallpapering it is a major for the home owner to have a leaking pipe behind a closed wall so it has to be a durability of 50 years when looking at the B2 clause




B2.3.1 Building elements must,
with only normal maintenance,
continue to satisfy the performance
requirements of this code for the
lesser of the specified intended life
of the building, if stated, or:
(a) The life of the building, being
not less than 50 years, if:
(i) Those building elements
(including floors, walls, and
fixings) provide structural
stability to the building, or
(ii) Those building elements are
difficult to access or replace, or
(iii) Failure of those building
elements to comply with the
building code would go
undetected during both
normal use and maintenance
of the building.

Here we are looking at 2 & 3 ...pipes behind gib or in enclosed spaces are dificult to access or replace and sometimes as we all know leaking and dripping pipes go undetected for years not being picked up during normal maintiance and use of building and so cause in some cases severe damage to the structure and integeraty of the building.
So i reckon 50year product gurrantee is needed.

my boss has just had a go with the council about getting coc on his house cus of his exposed decking and the councils and housing departments take on this issue is if structual elements have to be removed to access elements behind the cladding to be removed then the material behing said building element must have a durability of the element covering it...For example they count tile decking as part of the structual element of a building and as the tile has a durability of 50yrs then so the waterproffing underneath must have a durability of 50yrs...he had to get the head hancho of the dept of housing up for a colective meeting and during the meeting he said to them so what about buteline and there 20year gurrantee and the housing of dept head said "dont go there it will open up a can of worms"...and thats because buteline does not conform with the building code clause B2...
Haha but thats just my take on it...
Anyone else out there know any more indepth about this subject?

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2010, 05:26:17 AM »
i stand corrected(damb i hate being wrong!)lol...only piping cast in concrete, underslabs, or installed in masonary cavertys require 50year life :-[ :D ...but there is also the question...would faliure of the building element go undetected during normal maintance or use of the building...if so then a 50yr durability applies...its a bit of a cloudy subject if its behind a tiled wall then it should have the same life as the tile...if its a pinhole leak then it will go un-noticed...i can see this document is not a hard and fast document and leaves a wide scope for interpetation.  ::)...but i got the best excuse out there for being wrong, IM ONLY A TRANIEE!!! LMAO.

Offline TS

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 03:24:58 AM »
Interestingly Buteline has been approved by the DBH. Only plumbing pipe system to get the approval as far as I know.

Offline spud

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 05:31:16 AM »
Buteline is terrible stuff. Plastic joints that leak. Aluminium crimps that leak. The swivels stick and don't unscrew properly rather the whole pipe twists further down the wall. You can't beat dux secure.

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 08:20:50 PM »
Either product the basis is the same, previously we purchased this stuff off these companies and they in turn, provided upskilling on the use of their product FREE of charge (usually).  Now because of the requirement of the PGDB we are having to pay for what was previously given free, or as a reward of purchase.  There is a whole lot of administration that has grown up around CPD and the requirement to report back to the PGDB.  I'm very keen on my staff continuing to upskill - but I want them to learn new things, things that will benefit the business, not things that they learned as a first year apprentice, and that they do day in day out.  This is just padding.  I think as the purchasers of product we need to put a bit of pressure on the suppliers to deliver courses direct to industry at a cost recovery amount - or free if you support their product.
 
We do not know one millionth of one percent about anything.  (Thomas Edison - American Inventor)  And some of us know even less than that!  (Jaxcat)

Offline robbo

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2010, 04:48:47 AM »
hi guys, buteline/secura/speedfit and the like why would you need training how to use a set of rose pruners and a crimp tool. These products are invented to cut down on labour costs, US! all the time materials get cheaper and easier to use the more idiot proof it is to do plumbing. Do buteline or dux run "how to" seminars at Bunnings and Mitre10? and do they charge for the info????cheers   

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: UPSKILLING
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2010, 04:50:25 AM »
Excellent point Robbo!


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