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Author Topic: Fellow Practitioner Issue 342 Dated 15 September 2017  (Read 412 times)

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Offline Wal

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Fellow Practitioner Issue 342 Dated 15 September 2017
« on: September 15, 2017, 06:24:29 AM »
The Federation has always had a view to the future as we are pretty sure there is no way we were born just to pay bills and die. Our big problem is we are reliant on others, and when we say we are reliant we mean we must ask permission to do the things that are right for our industry. Bureaucrats regulate and control our every move, believing they know best because we are “only tradespeople”.

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-342-dated-15-september-2017/2167/

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 342 Dated 15 September 2017
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 11:03:37 AM »
A very interesting newsletter and one which lays out the Federation's view for the future.  I think the move to a five year apprenticeship, single qualification is a sensible one given the number of problems we are facing with supervision.  Most of us will know at least one colleague who isn't appropriately supervising their apprentice or exemption holder, and some of us may well know more than one.  To be sure there are bound to be a lot of big companies flouting the law.  There simply aren't enough qualified certifiers around to meet the supervision requirements.  So do we continue to break the law, or do we look at sensible and sound ways to solve it that don't put the general public at risk.  I like the idea of Advanced Trade qualifications in specialist areas.  The general membership will need to come out strongly next time this is consulted on as that is the only way it is likely to change.  Those running businesses will take a narrow view no doubt and be wanting to patch protect which isn't in the best interests of our industry as a whole.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline integrated

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Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 342 Dated 15 September 2017
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 10:04:51 PM »
I like the idea of Advanced Trade qualifications in specialist areas.  The general membership will need to come out strongly next time this is consulted on as that is the only way it is likely to change.  Those running businesses will take a narrow view no doubt and be wanting to patch protect which isn't in the best interests of our industry as a whole.



Sorry JAX not a fan of this idea at all.

The plumbing/gas-fitting/drain-laying industry has become way more complex than what it needs to be largely due to master plumbers fluffling their pillow through the 90's/00's. This whole scheme that everyone panders to is the result of that and introducing advanced trade quals is effectively a formalization of and extension of that.

There is no mandate for such extensive training (or rather expense - block courses etc) in this industry. Bring back 8000/10000 hr apprenticeships - historically and internationally known to become a master in ones field takes 10000 hrs approx.

People live where they live and learn on the job the skills and knowledge necessary to perform the tasks associated with their given jobs - if they don't they soon find themselves out of a job. Sure that may differ from others in locales of greater populous but core skills are transferable.

It has been sold to everyone that they must specialize in one thing or another but at the end of the day crap flows downhill and pipe transports water and waste - documentation is plentiful and is there free for all and sundry and all you really need is basic comprehension, but it is the practical side of the trade that takes some work.

People have not being dying left right and center due to dodgy plumbing/gas-fitting/drain-laying - i would challenge anyone to statistically prove the requirement for the level of regulation of this industry. I would seriously doubt that incidences of loss of amenity, illness and death has risen in line with or preceedingly thereof a rise in regulation.

EG - there has been no rise in mortality to warrant the rise in regulation - which has cost all tradesman significantly in a financial sense.

What advanced trades would you suggest over and above a std plumbing trade JAX?

What else could be removed from the plumbing trade?

The plumbing trade used to be the next biggest trade after traditional carpentry (excluding that trade of the fairer sex).

Once upon a time it included all piped services, drain-laying, roofing/cladding, heating, solar, extract/ducted services, mechanical etc etc - what is actually left of plumbing to specialize? It is already a stripped down shadow of its former self and by specializing more parts of it you reduce the revenue streams available to those who operate in the regions as they simply do not have the market to be able to restrict trade to one or two or three things.

My family business has been in the industry for well over 50 years - near on 60 - I left my primary role because the industry is ridiculous largely due to what I am outlining here. I trained for 18 mths in a different sector to be offered a job paying twice a plumbers wage and about the same as what could be expected in a regional town as a business owner but have none of the BS that goes with the responsibility of company ownership in the plumbing sector.

It is an extremely narrow viewpoint obviously of someone in a major city of NZ because i could guarantee you that that sort of business model would most likely only work in Auckland and Wellington - I doubt it would even work in Christchurch - maybe just right now it might but in 3-5 or more years it would not.

I am not trying to discredit you as a person or business manager JAX but this belief that the industry could do with advanced trade cert over and above or in lieu of what we already have is just completely misguided in my humble opinion and effectively that of the master plumbers 30 years ago (this is how the whole craftsman regime started) - I thought we were trying to simplify and commonsensify the industry?

I would appreciate and look forward to a reply on this as I genuinely thought and believed that the federation was borne out of the necessity to reduce the over regulation of our industry in a common sense kind of way.

Regards, Cheyne.

Offline Watchdog

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Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 342 Dated 15 September 2017
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 06:36:01 AM »
Hi Intigrated.

Some good thoughts there.  I think if you read into it the Federation is wanting to keep it simple and does not want to cut anymore from our industry. The way I read it is that they want one qualification and as you say it is everything that you need to be a Plumber Gasfitter or Drainlayer (workplace Competent was the term used).

I look at the advanced courses and they don't really fall into plumbing gasfitting or drainlaying with the exception of back flow but it has already been sliced off and separated. The advanced courses seem to be a branch off from the normal such as design, fire sprinklers and the such like. Things that only a few people or a certain organisation want to do but those few are going to hold up the progress of the industry and hold us where we are now. Give those few WANABES a little bit of want they want so the majority who want to be plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers can get on with life. 


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